Dellingr-SG-meeting-2018-11-29

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Dellingr Steering Group meeting

Time: 2018-11-29 09:00-10:30 CET

Place: https://cscfi.zoom.us/j/9917669499

Live minutes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/12ed5WmzaU1US2hmfRwHDwJqa1t2Qs2KhRAbNNwUhn5E/edit?usp=sharing

Invitations:

  • Kurt Gammelgaard Nielsen, DK
  • Per-Olov Hammargren, SE
  • Heta Koski, FI
  • Ebba Þóra Hvannberg, IS
  • Ivar Koppel, EE
  • Jorn Amundsen, NO (Observer)
  • Tomasz Malkiewicz, NeIC, Project owner
  • John White, NeIC, Project manager

Agenda :

18-5-1 Presence, approval of the agenda (TM, for decision) 5'

18-5-2 Project status (JW, for information) 15'

  • All Deliverables are started, that should be started.

18-5-3 Documents for approval

DO2 10'

  • Can this document be considered as approved and put to public page?

DO3 10'

  • Can this document be considered as approved and put to public page?

18-5-4 Document for preview

DO5 10'

  • Document underway...

DO4 15'

"User authentication, authorisation and accounting"

  • Here we have a request to study the need for AAI coordination in the Nordics and NeIC's possible role.
  • The framework currently uses EduGAIN-federated identities for logins.
  • This does not necessarily provide a legal identity.
  • In order to provide an identity after login, consider eID that can guarantee the unambiguous identification of a person and make it possible to get the service delivered to the person who is really entitled to it.
  • The eIDAS Regulation provides a solution to these issues by ensuring the cross-border mutual recognition of eID means.
  • This means that EU citizens will be able to use the eID means they use at national level also to access public services across borders in other Member States.
  • As of 29 September 2018 the recognition of notified eID will become mandatory.
  • We should examine how a framework can be made compliant with this regulation.

18-5-5 Preparation for Cross-Border Resource sharing service (JW, for information or for decision) 10'

  • Working title for the pilot: "Cross-Border Resource sharing service"
  • Framework finished. Need to make a test run for registering resources (provider) and also for requesting resources (user).
  • Core-hours in place, still waiting for definitive answer from DK.
  • 300k from Sweden, 500k from Finland and 1M from Estonia, IS - Yes.
  • Still a question of how to quantify a "secure service" (Tryggve).

18-5-6 High-level track deliverables (JW, for information) 15'

  • For the CSC large core-hours request, DK and SE are in contact with Jussi Heikonen.
  • Understand that the new machine contract is signed.

DO7

High-level track deliverable:

Nordic HPC/Cloud inventory

  • The inventory document is mostly done. We need to collect the information from NO still. The resources included are: "a computing resource that is available through the national provider mechanisms"

DO9

"Support in enabling NT1 resource exchange"

  • Still have to make the calculations on the missing storage and possible computing to replace.

18-5-7 Partners' contributions to the project (JW, for information) 10'

Revised effort for the project: this link. The effort indicated is in person-months. The Gantt chart tries to show the logical progression and relation of the deliverables to each other.


18-5-8 INFRAEOSC-5-(b) call (TM, for discussion) 15'

  • EOSC-Nordic

18-5-9 DI4R conference 2'

  • Lightning talk: here by John.
  • Framwork demo by Ilja.
    • The pictures were more appreciated...

18-5-10 Next meetings (TM, for decision) 5'

  • Steering Group: Feb 19th

18-5-11 AOB 5'

  • Next meetings: high level track options: Feb 8th or Feb 13th Feb 15th (09-11 13-15)

Minutes

18-5-1 Presence, approval of the agenda (TM, for decision) 5'

Present;

  • Kurt Gammelgaard Nielsen, DK
  • Per-Olov Hammargren, SE
  • Heta Koski, FI
  • Ebba Þóra Hvannberg, IS
  • Ivar Koppel, EE
  • Jorn Amundsen, NO (Observer)
  • Tomasz Malkiewicz, NeIC, Project owner
  • John White, NeIC, Project manager

18-5-2 Project status (JW, for information) 15'

Per-Olov: Question on how are the preparations for the pilot are going. (will see later in agenda)

Kurt: For the DK resources for the pilot. Can clarify later on.

Per-Olov: Do we have the correct people in the project for policy decisions? (Yes. If any more higher level questions then the PG can always refer them).

Tomasz: NeIC has an independent consultant when need legal opinion. Might even be able to use the same expert. GDPR issues and data.

Tomasz: There is the “EY” question. Useful discussion need to identify the bottlenecks?

Per-Olov: VAT was an issue when considering the FI request to exchange resources.

Kurt: From the EY report was saw that by using the same resource pool model as PRACE solves the problem. What is more difficult is the GDPR issue. Also for local sensitive data regulations. Could be considered solved through the pool method.

Per-Olov: Could you forward this report to me?

https://wiki.neic.no/int/Dellingr#Documents

Per-Olov: If we are to export services we need to know how to a value.

Kurt: Could you forward the contact person? (Tomasz)

18-5-3 Documents for approval

DO2 10'

Questions:

Ivar: We see that the situation can be quite heterogeneous …. Some applications for resources may have to proceed via email and some will be automatic.

Jorn: Comment… NO contributes in NLPL but shows contribution in DO2. Could we put a cross reference from DO2 to DO3?

Propose:

Put into the footnote.. About the NLPL participation NO and FI (4) NLPL

Include in the summary (e.g. VAT and procurement)

Kurt: A comment… We in DK have started with Waldur.... We find it very useful. We see that the bottleneck is in the policies.

Decision: Procedure for approval of delivery:

John implements the corrections above , sends the final version to the Dellingr SG giving 2 weeks for approval. No comments within 2 weeks means approval by the SG. The approval of the SG is to be added to the next SG meeting agenda as ‘for information’ item, solely for bookkeeping.

DO3 10'

Per-Olov: Define HPC… this is a VERY broad definition.

Jorn: Also from NLPL we can provide more detailed information on the usage within NLPL.

Propose:

Per-Olov will get back with the HPC definition.

Email to Jorn, Bjorn and Stephan about the NLPL usage.

18-5-4 Document for preview

DO5 10'

Per-Olov:We should add a section on the financial issues. Will talk with Anders about this.

DO4 15'

  • Here we have a request to study the need for AAI coordination in the Nordics and NeIC's possible role.
  • The framework currently uses EduGAIN-federated identities for logins.
  • This does not necessarily provide a legal identity.
  • In order to provide an identity after login, consider eID that can guarantee the unambiguous identification of a person and make it possible to get the service delivered to the person who is really entitled to it.
  • The eIDAS Regulation provides a solution to these issues by ensuring the cross-border mutual recognition of eID means.
  • This means that EU citizens will be able to use the eID means they use at national level also to access public services across borders in other Member States.
  • As of 29 September 2018 the recognition of notified eID will become mandatory.
  • We should examine how a framework can be made compliant with this regulation.

Tomasz: This request comes from SUNET.

Jorn: Comment: Glenna looks at AAI. Are we repeating anything?

John: We saw the need in the PG to meet with Dan/Antti…

Tomasz: For NeIC the point of entry for this AAI subject is Dellingr

Tomasz: This is a welcome addition. The Provider Forum minutes provides basis. Should dig a bit deeper.

18-5-5 Preparation for Cross-Border Resource sharing service (JW, for information or for decision) 10'

  • Working title for the pilot: "Cross-Border Resource sharing service"
  • Framework finished. Need to make a test run for registering resources (provider) and also for requesting resources (user).
  • Core-hours in place, still waiting for definitive answer from DK.
  • 300k from Sweden, 500k from Finland and 1M from Estonia, IS - Yes.
  • Still a question of how to quantify a "secure service" (Tryggve).

Comment from Heta: Was not aware that CSC resources will be directly connected to the Waldur instance?

John: Only usage information from Slurm scheduler will be sent. No automatic creation of accounts etc. This is still done through the national provider interface(s).

Kurt: Due to the transition of the DeIC board, not able to commit ourselves over longer period. Could be a problem to commit over longer time. The commitment from Jens is also looked at.

Kurt: For the first pilot we found some resources (money) from DeIC. In principal local HPC centres could. No clear path into the Dellingr sharing.

Per-Olov: The fact that this is a pilot should be reflected in the title. Change the working title?

Per-Olov: will get back to you for the title.

Jorn: What is a service and what is a pilot? (pilot is a test that has a beginning and end and a service implies it’s a long-lived thing)

Proposal for a working title: “Preparation for Cross-Border Resource sharing service”.

  • Per-Olov will get back to us later today with thoughts on the title re pilot vs. other. In fact: "Cross-Border Resource sharing test instance".

18-5-6 High-level track deliverables (JW, for information) 15'

  • For the CSC large core-hours request, DK and SE are in contact with Jussi Heikonen.
  • Understand that the new machine contract is signed.

Tomasz: So now that there is a large AI GPU purchase, the need for the core-hours is reduced. The need is no longer so apparent.

Per-Olov: We have not been in contact with Jussi?

Tomasz: Indeed, the contact has been Kimmo-Hans. Buying CPU by CSC is not possible.

  • To be done: Need an update on the current requirements to “borrow” resources?
  • Kurt: As above, DK cannot participate to share resources.

DO7 High-level track deliverable

  • Nordic HPC/Cloud inventory
  • The inventory document is mostly done. We need to collect the information from NO still. The resources included are: "a computing resource that is available through the national provider mechanisms"

Jorn: For Norway: Hans Eide is a contact person, John can contact Hans Eide directly. DK has all zeroes as the resources are all paid.

SG: Agrees to note the DK paid situation and include the DK resources to the table. Explain in the DK paragraph in the document.

DO9 "Support in enabling NT1 resource exchange"

  • Still have to make the calculations on the missing storage and possible computing to replace.
  • SG: OK with this.

18-5-7 Partners' contributions to the project (JW, for information) 10'

  • Revised effort for the project: this link. The effort indicated is in person-months. The Gantt chart tries to show the logical progression and relation of the deliverables to each other.

Tomasz: DeiC and NeIC dialogue meeting seeking for increase in DK commitment to Dellingr, especially in high-level track, René Jacobsen as possible enforcement for the high level track.

18-5-8 INFRAEOSC-5-(b) call (TM, for discussion) 15'

  • EOSC-Nordic

Tomasz: 2018/11/20 submitted.

18-5-9 DI4R conference 2'

  • Lightning talk: here by John.
  • Framework demo by Ilja.
    • The pictures were more appreciated...

No special comments received.

18-5-10 Next meetings (TM, for decision) 5'

  • Steering Group: Feb 19th
  • Decision: Feb 19th, 09h00 11h00 CET

18-5-11 AOB 5'

  • Next meetings: high level track options: Feb 8th or Feb 13th Feb 15th (09-11 or 13-15)
  • FtF at the NeIC conference 2019
  • Here we propose a video meeting…

Decision: Send a doodle with these dates as options. The list to send to is as follows:

EE: Ivar Koppel DK: Kurt Gammelgaard Nielsen FI: Pekka Lehtovuori, Heta Koski IS: Guðmundur H. Kjærnested, Ebba Þóra Hvannberg SE: Per-Olov Hammargren NeIC: Gudmund Høst, Tomasz Malkiewicz, John White

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