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Dellingr steering group meeting

Time: 2018-04-27 13h00 CEST



  • Kurt Gammelgaard Nielsen, DK
  • Per-Olov Hammargren, SE
  • Heta Koski, FI
  • Ebba Þóra Hvannberg, IS
  • Ivar Koppel, EST
  • Jørn Amundsen, NO (Observer)
  • Tomasz Malkiewicz, NeIC, Project owner
  • John White, NeIC, Project manager
  • Rob Pennington, NeIC

Agenda :

18-2-01 Presence 5'

All present.

18-2-02 DO1 "Resource Exchange Models" 10'

  • Propose to add the text to Section 2:

"This document describes the scenarios for sharing resources, the mechanisms to share resources and the exchange mechanisms."


"This document describes the motivations for sharing resources as outlined in the project plan~\cite{dell-pp}, the mechanisms to share resources and the exchange mechanisms."

  • When can the document be approved by the SG?


The Project Group needs to get the final version of chapter 4. This describes the resource exchange mechanism. In particular, need to detail the anticipated steps for each case. So that legal experts can give their views.

Heta: How about from different views? Our main view is for the customer... The ease to apply for resources is important.

POH: Is this (Waldur) a primary or supplementary system? Is it a second level of handling information? Do we agree to to a pilot using Waldur? Does this come in a bit off-guard?

Heta: What are we agreeing to? Share using Waldur?

TM: The DO1 document gives the general views of the project group but no commitment. It's up to the Steering Group to decide whether to proceed using all or some of the information in DO1.

TM: It is not specifically written in the Project Plan to use Waldur for a second pilot.

ACTION: DO1 to be modified according to the comments.

18-2-03 Agenda for the High-level planning and coordination meeting 30'

  • Composition of the forum for the high-level track.
  • Date week of May 28th 2018 (pending doodle participation).
  • Common user agreement needed.


In general the date May 29th is OK.

Please note that the times on the doodle poll are outdated... the schedule proposed is 09h00 to 14h00 for the high-level track meeting.

  • Who else should participate...
    • Pekka Lehtovuori may participate on this date.
    • Per-Olov will check with Hans K.

Question (Ebba): Does there have to be a SG member and high-level (director) of national provider per country?

TM: I will get the agenda together and let the countries decide individually (agenda by Friday 4th May)

Possible agenda points (Rob):

  • Future acquisitions. Is the cost of procurement and deployment considered separately? High-level view on this?

Kurt: Giving an early roadmap from each country. We have no problems to exchange info. A final stage in coordinating purchases might be difficult with so many interests... international dimension added to this might complicate matters.

RP: Coordinate may not be the right word. Exchange of information.

Kurt: Happy to exchange info. But hard to coordinate.

  • Aligning of procurements.
    • What costs may be combined or shared across national borders for procurements.
    • Some countries have more experience in purchasing.
  • EuroHPC? (Ebba)
    • Are these discussions only at ministry level.

POH: In Sweden the research council takes care of this. So is at ministry level.

Kurt: DK also at ministry level. Is NO joining?

Jorn: Probably yes.

  • Benchmarking discussions.
  • Facility requirements? Growth paths? Buildings and facilities? (Rob).

POH: Does the inventory include work on mapping future scientific needs?

POH: Sweden is doing an inventory on the server halls that houses our resources.

Heta: We have a procurement process ongoing. At CSC. Would this be interesting to hear about? I could organize people for this?

IK: Also we could give a presentation on this.

    • This can be added to the agenda.

ACTION: John to remove the current items on the agenda.

ACTION: Tomasz to create agenda page for the meeting.

18-2-04 Project Plan v2.8 30'

Resource sharing

  • We have an important comment from Per-Olov in DO1 about the reasons to share resources. The PP has (section 3.1)

"One of the strong motivations on the part of the national providers is to more fully understand the opportunities for their national researchers to have undisrupted access to high quality computational resources during transition periods between systems and architectures. These transition periods primarily occur during hardware upgrades and acquisitions."

But it is correct that in the project plan, the motivation given to share resources is the text above. In addition Nordic Action Plan points 6 and 8, as well as NeIC strategy.

In DO1 we have Section 3 that gives motivations to share resources.

Also DO's 5 and 6 are referring to continued and long-term resource sharing.


To add to the project plan and of Section 3.1

"Another motivation to share resources is to open new research opportunities by allowing users to access resources with characteristics (hardware, software, support) that cannot be found in their home countries."

Adding this will align with the text of DO's 5 and 6 ... and Section 3 of DO1.

DO3 (due June 2018)

This needs to be clarified. The title and the delivery process do not match (in my opinion).


"Delivery is a document describing the approaches that have been adopted in each country to support a simple Dellingr pilot project and the NLPL."


Agreed to change the line in the project plan.

Discussion on DO10 "Support in enabling NT1 resource exchange"

  • This got included but not properly approved by the SG as to its nature and inclusion.
  • Listed as due June 2018.
  • Currently NT1 (Mattias W) has been kept up to date on our thinking within the Project Group on how the resource exchange rates will work.


This was proposed in Nov 2017. Motivation from the NeIC board. Not yet approved by the Dellingr SG.

POH: Reading this... unsure what Dellingr can do here?

TM: They are looking for an "exchange table". Trading resources. Coordinating the NT1 work.

POH: The NT1 quotas are handled by CERN (experiments) and the national levels...What does Dellingr add to this?

TM: It has been seen that it's difficult for national consortiums to talk... maybe at a lower level it will be easier. e.g. the question of tape quota vs CPU quota? The NT1 community has difficulties in coming to a conclusion.

ACTION: This needs to be revisited... and the June 2018 date for this DO10 to be re-written. (Removed for now).

18-2-05 Collaboration Agreement 5'

Not to be confused with the Service Agreement.


All will check that the CA has been signed. Communicating with Tomasz/Kine.

18-2-06 AOB 25'

NLPL Use-Case


Tomasz: There is an open question on how continuous collaboration with NLPL should look like. We can easily provide things like the Typeform page. Also have to find the way to contribute to DO3. NLPL is formally a use-case of Dellingr.

ACTION : There will be a meeting on May 4th about this with NLPL.

Resources in Dellingr

From DK (Kurt): Jens is positive to re-join. But not at the same percentage as before (50%?)

Kurt: In the next week or so. Will send to Kine and Tomasz.

TM: Good news. Part-time can be arranged... SG approves? (no objection)

TM: I would like to suggest to look at resources to see the usage. We also have to consider the high-level track also. This does not cause problems with CA as the SG has mandate to change.

ACTION: SG members to review (obtain) information on the levels that participants need to work in the project.

Collaboration with Tryggve and Glenna

Tomasz: We have the subjects such as AAI... etc.

Tomasz: Tryggve2 has the AAI system from EGI (Spain?).

POH: What kind of input do they want from us? Is the system they use is not suitable?

POH: What is the progress?

TM: There are advanced tests in Tryggve... users can authenticate to system. But the AAI Tryggve2 is working on is not really a general purpose AAI of interest for Dellingr.

18-2-07 Next meeting


  • We will meet in Helsinki on May 29th 09h00 to 14h00 for the high-level track meeting.
  • The next meeting for the SG?
  • May 29th 14h00 CEST to 16h00 (17h00 EET) directly after the HL track meeting. (Kurt by video).